Viewer for Reddit

Ok crackpots let's have it.

1. Daedra is queen
2. Daedra isn't in rogue one or ANH.

These points in mind, let's have your best "what happens to Daedra (and I guess Cyril also) theories.

Is there a star wars music genre that fits it? Could it be core drive? Electro-twang? electro-trash?

One thing I love about Andor is all the little bits of foreshadowing. This season we see Tay start to unravel a bit and turn to drinking. In Season 1, there's a moment where Perrin is drinking those squig drinks, and despite Mon's disgust for them, Tay casually goes, "I'll have one of those". I didn't think about it at all at the time because of how innocuous it was, but knowing where his character is headed makes me look at that small scene in a new light.

does anyone else see that scene as more of a positive thing?, I saw someone say it was like a phoenix rises out the ashes, the next step to her being a rebel leader and that was moreso my reading of it, a letting go of her past, I think it still is too forgot but it also can and is both.

I'm not saying she's dancing out of joy or having a good time but the scene itself is positive

I think a big part of the scene is a sense of freedom and liberation, something often associated with dancing, I think it's a more emotional layered scene then people are saying

I hate Disney with all my heart but I'll give em a chance with the question:

Is there any blood in "Andor" like there was in the original trilogy?

I've seen people mention that not all the Chandrila scores are on the release, but weirdly no one has mentioned the title themes. The one "main title theme" on the soundtrack is from the third episode, no first or second theme. Will they be released later or forever unreleased?

Where he at String?

I wouldn't say my thoughts on Syril were shaped by Tony Gilroy as I came out of the season calling him a fascist and Gilroy apparently doesn't see Syril similarly; heck I still call him a fascist, that said they do mirror mine own by and large.

The lionshare of comments people have on Syril on this subreddit is polar that of the actors and Gilroy aside from the mentions of him showing the banality of evil, so for those that do try and mention "the point" of things in the series which bucks being able to claim "death of the author," as the point has to come from an original source/a code to crack in the narrative; here is what's actually said by the show's wirter.

Mainly posted as the insistence from some that Dedra is more posed for a heel turn despite Syril actually having human interests in-line with Ghorman culture and a cause in catching Cassian that is the opposite of bureaucratic ladder climbing/genocide planning with eyes wide open is a little mind boggling to me.

Not that I wish or want either of them to turn, just that if one did it'd likely not be the one already content with torture and hanging.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/star-wars/andor-syril-karn-fascist

https://ew.com/andor-creator-tony-gilroy-originally-hated-aspect-hilarious-dinner-scene-11714092

Clip of Tony Gilroy describing Syril as pure and unconfused on the path being to "do the right thing," but that right thing of course is where many people ultimately commit great wrongs.

https://x.com/jeronandor/status/1590493195863224322?t=wUXsekIArLm3hDswmcRKLw&s=19

He also says many characters test his sympathy but that Syril never does.

I don't think all of his words are opposite to the conclusions people predict in Syril's arc but they and many of the words from the actors paint a different picture of the emotional makeup of Dedra and him.

And that part of their person rather than the insistence on filtering every possible thought through the lens of anti-fascist vs embracing a multitude of ways to feel for the story that don't compromise any of the others, would be a waste in my mind and never how I engage with most fiction 🤷🏾‍♂️

I found it very suspicious that Krennik handpicked Dedra for the job. He says that he keeps an ear to the ground, but she is too much of a non-entity in the hierarchy of the Empire to be made note of. Krennik's very small team has people of many occupations. Spots are numbered, and here we have a redundancy of two ISB agents from the same team. Had Partagaz brought Dedra as his assistant, it could make sense. But for Krennik to want her, when he already has the more experienced Partagaz? Makes no sense.

My theory is that Dedra is being set up as the Person Who Will Take the Fall. The Ghorman catastrophe is obviously sanctioned, but the Empire will still need someone to publicly make example of to soothe the outcry. Dedra is eager and cruel, she will follow questionable orders easily. And she already has a history of overdoing it.

Bonus points if Partagaz knows and even proposed her for this role. It would be on par with the internal backstabbing.

I watched it for the third time tonight, and I noticed more details in the production design, more non-verbal acting cues, and bits I somehow missed in the initial viewings (like when they told B2 that he's staying up on the hill, and we don't hear from him again, as people have pointed out 😔). It's like reading a novel rich with detail. and I don't know why, but I even found the storyline with the rebel faction in the jungle more entertaining this time around. at first I thought it was somewhat pointless and meandering, but after seeing it juxtaposed with the more fine-tuned imperial agenda (plotting to mine on Gorman), and the Chandrilan wedding customs of the ultra-rich, it makes more sense. I found myself questioning the decisions of the disorganized rebels, only to realize that at this point their decision-making won't make much sense because there is no clear leader and no clear objective. this series has all the hallmarks of great television. and we got 9 more episodes to go!!!

Besides the typical grifter "All Modern Star Wars is always bad, no exceptions" nonsense doing its rounds on social media regarding Andor Season 2, there has been one argument against it that the contents of the show is inappropriate for children, and thus is not "True Star Wars" since Star Wars is for kids.

Now, a part of me does understand where there are coming from since Lucas himself has said many times that Star Wars is primarily aimed at children, but I feel like these people, assuming they are arguing in good faith and are not just grifting, are forgetting the concept of younger versus older kids. Depending on the context and definition, the age range of being a child begins from birth to just before being a teenager (0 to 12 years of age) or from birth to being 18-21 years of age. In those years, a child will develop and grow to be able to handle different and more mature subjects, and said older children will seek out that media themselves. Like, do these people think that a older kid in the 10 to 12 age range would want to watch something like Young Jedi Adventures, a show clearly aimed at preschoolers instead of something like the 2003 and/or 2008 Clone Wars animated series?

A bit off-topic, but I actually talked about this before when I made a thread about the Ben 10 alien species Highbreed (a race of genocidal racial supremacists obsessed with genetic purity) in this comment.

I think the problem is that a lot of people, like the TV execs and parents you mentioned, nowadays all group everyone under 18/21 as collectively being "kids." While they of course are all kids, they neglect the concept of older kids who are ready for some more serious and mature concepts and ideas in media but not to the level of actual adult fiction.

Older shows like Ben 10, the 2003 and 2008 Clone Wars cartoons, Samurai Jack, etc. catered to the audience of these older kids (I would say from the 7 to 13 age range?) while still being appropriate for them to watch. I would say most Shonen anime also fulfill this role, but they lean more towards being for teenagers than old kids/preteens, imo. But, now most animated shows (again, outside of anime) are only for adults or very young children with little middle ground. The only exceptions I can think of are certain modern animated movies, like the Spider-Verse films, that still fit into that sweet "older kids and up" age group.

Star Wars has always been more suited for older children since it features things like murder, child murder, limb removal, genocide, both "regular" and sexual slavery, being set on fire, etc., so I don't see why anything from Andor would potentially be too much for them. Furthermore, even older children like teenagers would be ready to watch things like Andor or other more adult-oriented shows (and they'll often watch them anyway with or without parental supervision) as Andor has the "TV-14" age rating plastered right on Disney+ for everyone to see, which is the same age rating used for a multitude of other more adult-oriented media such as King of the Hill, Family Guy, Primal, etc.

Finally, I think one of the beauty of large franchises like Star Wars is a that there is a large spectrum of various types of media (movies, live-action shows, animated series, books, comics, manga, video games, etc.) for a range of different ages, allowing for virtually any kind of person to like and enjoy Star Wars.

Saw is one of my top three or four most favorite SWU characters ever. I often fantasize about shooting fascists during the battle of Ebro in 1938 Spain or being present for Mussolini's body to be hung upside down or building guillotines in France in 1789. So it makes sense this anti-fascist is a hero of the universe IMO. So yeah I think Saw is gonna, at some point, create even bigger divides between him and the splintered factions prior to the alliance forming and I'm sure Gilroy will navigate that masterfully. I am also here for it.

The trailer(s) do show a scene of Saw's X-Wings and transport ship taking off next to a body that doesnt look very Impish, and could be very rebel or civilian, and the backdrop looks Yavin4ish, and it looks like the temple's door step. Is that Saw, pissed at Maya Pei's Handsome Extra's from Lost Boys Club for fucking around and generally being idiots, finishing them off so they're less of a problem? Or is that not Yavin4 afterall, though man....from R1, seeing Cassian striding around, etc shots of Yavin 4...kinda seems like it is?

I do predict were gonna see some hot, sultry, rebel-on-rebel action at some point that's gonna push Saw even further into the madness.

I get why Tony Gilroy had to kill Brasso. Because if he didn't he would've singlehandedly taken down the Empire in a single night using Maarva's brick

Dedra said her parents were criminals. Do we think they were just common criminals or is it more of a political thing?

Even though we don't know how old she was when she was taken in by the Empire, I think she's too old for them to have been Separatists, but perhaps they were part of something that was retroactively seen as "criminal"

order Luthen Rael's death?

It seems pretty clear to me from the setup in these first three episodes that this is where these characters are heading. Especially if we're jumping a year ahead with each new three episode arch. At some point, Mon Mothma is going to have to make the hard call to save the rebellion for some reason or another. Loss and sacrifice in service of the rebellion is a major theme of Andor and Rogue One.

Or, do you think this isn't going to happen?

One of the highlights of Ashoka was Ray Stevenson's role as Baylan Skoll. He did such a great job and I am actually really looking forward to seeing what they do with the character in the second season. While it was recently announced that Rory McCann is taking over from the late, great Ray Stevenson, I think the actor who played Brasso is Andor should have been considered. He has the physicality and similar looks to Stevenson. I would love to see this actor in more things and I don't care if he's a hero or a villain as he just takes over every scene he is in.

Holy crap I just finished Ep.3 and this show is actually insane. Ive always been a Kathleen Kennedy hater and they’ve really been pumping out pure garbage but Andor season 2 is just a work of art. Every detail every vibe tells the story perfectly and it gives is a more realistic side of how the empire looked at this time in star wars. Every detail like Mon Mothma forcing herself to dance while her world around her is collapsing is just perfect. Makes me want to be a filmmaker again. This is how Star Wars should be

I feel like people on here complain about her a lot but out of everyone, I find her to be one of the characters who feels the most real.

This is where you say, “Thesis, please”.

Now that Dedra and Syril are confirmed to be in some sort of romantic relationship, there’s been a lot of discourse about how they operate in the bedroom. Considering their personalities, most people seem to agree that Dedra would be likely to adopt a dominant role. I have my doubts about this. In this essay, I will…

From what we’ve seen of Syril, I don’t think he enjoys being submissive. He’s submissive all the time, and he’s miserable. His mother makes him submit on a daily basis and it almost sends him into an anxiety attack. But watch Syril once he has even a teensy-tiny amount of power. We’ve seen it in the way he managed his staff on Morlana and during the operation on Ferrix. The kicker for me, though, is how he links this feeling of power with his appearance. He modifies his uniform, his symbol of status, to look more flattering. Power makes him feel good. Makes him look good. Makes him feel like he looks good.

A better microcosm of Syril’s relationship with power can be seen in his introductory scene in Season 2. Look how he lords his modicum of authority over the new, somehow even more pathetic, applicant. How he makes his middle-management job sound like a divine calling. The clincher is the way he clicks to demand the applicant’s attention. He is locked in on dom mode in this scene.

I have less evidence for Dedra. I can totally see her not giving up her sense of control, even in the bedroom, but I can also see her enjoying giving up power in a controlled environment. The main thing that suggests the latter is the case comes from the preview scene in which she tells him to turn out the lights. Now there could be plenty of reasons for this. It’s possible that she’s repulsed by him (I’m still not counting out the fact that she’s just manipulating him to use him as an asset, because I really can’t see what an accomplished woman like her would see in him). If this turns out to be a genuine relationship, though, I can fully believe that Dedra would be willing to adopt a submissive role in the bedroom. I also believe she still wouldn’t like to be seen being submissive. I imagine the moment the lights come back on, she’s immediately back in Gestapo Mommy Mode again.

In conclusion, the bedroom is the only place in the entire galaxy that Syril isn’t a bottom.

Thank-you for coming to my TedTalk.

…….Is how they handle the death of characters. For context, I fully expected Brasso to die in season 2, but not like they portrayed in the show. Thought he’d be killed in a spectacular, heroic fashion, like a shootout between imperial troops or protecting Bix or Cassian. Instead, we just see him dead as a result of him trying to make a run for his life. He just……ended up being shot and killed, like a pig in a slaughterhouse. Hell, he probably died a devoid of hope and full of despair since he probably thought Bix was doomed.

And it hurts. A lot. To see one of the most beloved characters in the series be killed for no reason, with no epic showdown, with no particular relevance to the plot. It’s only them you realize that the Empire is truly unredeemable, for killing so many good men without giving a shit.

(Yes, I'm talking about the attempted SA scene)

Anyhow on my second watch last night I noticed that Disney placed the "Skip to next episode" marker right as the scene shifts from tension to action and when Bix defiantly refuses his demands. Was this Disney's way of giving folks and easy way to punch out of this scene if they were going to be upset by it?

Is the planet where Krennic has his secret meeting the same planet in The Bad Batch where Tech executed Order 99?

Maltheen Divide sounds more like a specific location on a planet than a whole planet and they look eerily similar.

I think Perrin knows more about Mon's activities than Mon realizes. His conversation with her about Tay seemed like a warning. Did Tay say something to him while drunk? The way Perrin watches Luthen and Kleya is odd. Not sure what that is implying.

I can't figure out if Perrin has hidden rebel sympathies or if he actually loves Mon and is concerned for her. Thoughts? Did I miss important breadcrumbs?

Every single side character in Andor, that is how real they seem.

A full episode dedicated to Major Partagaz - He’s here, he’s there, he’s everywhere. He’s nowhere.

One for Davo Sculden’s family

One for Vel, no actually scratch that, she is the least interesting character in the show

One for Kellen

Watched the 3rd episode of Andor. The character of Mon Mothma is infuriating.

She has long ignored the friend who helped her save her and her family's reputation and freedom, and maybe even her life. And when she found out that he wanted to be thanked in return for his help not ignored her reaction was ‘Man, I'm shocked (—_—).’

Also in fact, Mon Mothma sold her daughter to cover herself and at the last moment, when nothing can be changed, she declares: - ‘Oh, I'm sorry let's cancel everything, my beloved daughter. But only if you cancel it yourself (ᵔ⩊ᵔ).’ At least the daughter put her in her place аnd then Mon Mothma immediately and defiantly took offence at her own daughter half a minute before her wedding!!!

And then, as I understand it, she betrayed her friend by letting things go because she not wanting to discuss things with him on the spot, but putting it off for a week, even though he had already waited a very long time.

What's wrong with the character Mon Mothma?

Apologies if this has already been posted, and I'm sure it has at least once. It's hard to keep up with this sub right now! But I really can't recommend this book enough to Andor fans. The Rise and Fall of the Galactic Empire by Chris Kempshall is also a good one. But, yeah, Mask of Fear- there's a lot about Mon, obviously, but you also get Saw Gerrera, and Bail Organa. It's set pretty much right after the fall of the Republic, too, so the politics are really fascinating.

I find it interesting how out of touch the people at the wedding were to the realities of the Empire. They’re partying drinking in a gigantic mansion with every possible luxury while on the farm planet there’s nothing but abject poverty and because of that the hand of the empire is much more present. Almost as if the empire exists more in the world of the “peasants” because it exists to oppress them and at the same time it knows implicitly that most of the elite benefit from the imperial system so there’s less of an incentive to monitor them like they do with the working class. The contrast of going back and forth from the wedding to the fight on the farm world really accentuated this contrast to me. I’d like to hear all of your thoughts as well!

I am Fully in red string and corkboard territory. And I recognize this.

Perrin, as we know from Season 1, isn't particularly strict about Chandrilan traditions when it comes to weddings. He never shares his Exact thoughts but he's supported Leida as best he could and played the good Chandrilan father. He knows Mon doesn't like the traditions involved but...what can you do?

He put on a good show, gave the best advice his obvioisly imperfect marriage to Mon set him up to give, and went through with everything. He smiles for Leida and even shares a moment with Mon over Sculdun's absurdly pricy wedding gift.

He's enjoying the party. His friends and acquaintences and family are here. He's dancing to the music and moving with the crowd when he sees it.

No dialogue. No words. And in a single moment it communicates something to me.

Mon Mothma. Do gooder protecting the Separatiat remnants from Imperial bureaucracy. Friend of the oppressed. Upright and by the book Mon. THE Senator Mon Mothma, diligent and dutiful figurehead of the former Republic and now Imperial Senate's resistance to governmental overreach...is wasted and dancing like the priviledged upper class woman she is...and he slows to watch it with a look I know.

A look I have both seen on others and felt on my own face.

Perrin knows that something isn't just wrong, something is Hurting his wife on the inside.

And it was at that exact moment I thought, "Oh shit. They're gonna kill Perrin. He's going to try, for once in their marriage, to stand up and be the husband he thinks she needs or deserves or something...and it's gonna geto him killed."

The SA scene. I think the reason some people feel like it "didn't belong" is because while yes we have seen instances in SW before of it, there was never a scene dedicated to the actual playing out of SA. It was a bold move and I think i was executed fairly well.

The thing that made me on the fence about it: lets not pretend like Disney does not have a track record of decision making to include things just to appeal to a certain group. Not saying its good or bad, but to say it doesn't exist would be foolish. And that's what it kinda felt like to me; less about a showcase on how cruel the universe/empire is in the SW universe and more about creating morale with the viewer base, which we can see it definitely did. Of course I might be biased, because I'm not the biggest fan of what disney has done with SW, but to me that scene sort of broke the veil between our real world and this fictitious universe, because to me it felt like it had an ulterior motive besides storytelling.

What would I do differently? I would've had Bix kill the guy before he could get close and grab her, because we didn't need that scene to tell us that he was predatory, he could've been killed early and we would totally still get the message.

Or, include the scene, and to really show that the empire is fucked and cruel, after she said to the other guy waiting outside that "he tried to SA me" I would've had that guy say something diabolical like "and you resisted?" and then he tried to go after her and Bix shoots him but he doesn't die right away and then he says something like "long live the empire" before she dumps like 10 shots into him. That way it would more feel like its part of the story, that the empire is evil, and not just the one guy.

A couple of details I noticed that I really appreciated in S2E3.

Leida told Mon “I wish you were drunk.” And a few scenes later, we see Mon getting drunk and dancing. Is it because she just “approved” (or at the very least did not stop) her childhood friend from getting terminated? Is it because she basically “sold” Leida to fund the Rebellion? Is it because she understood that her personal life is basically in shambles because of these two things, or because of Perrin’s speech? Is this her coping? Or is it her way of trying to make Leida happy? One thing’s for certain: at the end of the episode, Mon was drunk and Leida’s wish was granted.

And Luthen? Well, after he has that conversation with Mon, we see Mon joining the party. And there’s a scene of Luthen looking at her joining the dance and then a side shot of Luthen’s face while he’s walking away. To me it ties back to Luthen’s speech in S1 about giving up his humanity. Even at a celebration, he can’t have fun for a minute. He can’t join in a single dance. He can’t enjoy a single moment. Because he’s absolutely committed to protecting Mon the cause.

Absolutely amazing scene. Absolutely great show.

Andor Declassified is out!! Myth and symbolism in the world of Star Wars and beyond!

Like typically sci fi writers just invents a planet, and gives them a particular climate and physical geography, and might give the cities a particular architecture, but that's it. Most of the planet still speak the same language, and there's no sense of being a place.

I'm just gonna say it. The EDM was ill-placed during really serious moments in Chandrila and other scenes. I was hoping for more beautiful scoring. The actors did an amazing job but dang Disney, lettin me down again. 🥲

32:40 WTF! Wuhhhuuuuuu! Masterpiece! Sound/Mix/Setting: 10:10

So an idea just struck me while watching an interview with Denise Gough talking about how orange Eedy's clothes are in this scene. From Dedra's perspective the dinner is symbolic for the Empire vs the Rebellion, Eedy in orange a colour typically that of the jumpsuit's worn by Rebel pilots, is sniping away at the vulnerabilities of the Empire (Syril) while Dedra as both herself and the ISB come sweeping in to put the Rebellion down.

I could take it a step further and cast it as foreshadowing for the Ghorman situation where Dedra wants Rebels to act for narrative purposes, but in a controlled way, something like this "I'll allow a level of Rebel activity but it will be inversely proportional to the amount of damage caused" She wants some Rebels and damage, but not so much that they become an actual problem.

What do you think?

There are obvious parallels between the Empire and the Third Reich. I think this is another one. Not just because of the setting/aesthetics... The Berghof was the vacation home of Hitler, and only the trusted inner circle was invited there. The beginning of this scene in Andor states that they are all part of a exclusive body.

Moreover, I think that there is an even deeper parallel. Just as with the Third Reich, the Empire has a high level of competence, professionalism, regiment, and order. However, there was a surprising amount of dysfunction in Hitler's inner circle. In that scene, after Dedra has made it to that exclusive circle, I think that we see disillusionment in her, because she was expecting a higher level of capability and competence.

In season one, Mon Mothma had challenges getting monies to help with the rebellion. And she helped the rebellion via Luthen. But when her finances became harder to conceal, Luthen told her that basically, if her funding was coming under scrutiny and harder to get, he should seek funding elsewhere and she should back away. She then told Luthen that she was bringing someone in (Tay) to help conceal it and she wanted to continue.

Essentially, she argued with him, pleading that he should be patient and give her some time to figure out how to continue to give him funding, despite the dangers to herself and the cause. (if you go back and rewatch their conversation, he really wanted to find a safer source of funds but she really pushed herself on him.)

And now in Season 2 we see the fallout to everyone.

Is there anything that people are aware of that suggests why she would push to assist in this fashion (solely by giving money) despite its danger to her and to Luthen and the cause overall?

It seems a bit foolhardy for her to continue to push help via the funding angle and not perhaps change to some other method of helping the rebellion. What do people think?