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Andor Declassified is out!! Myth and symbolism in the world of Star Wars and beyond!

…….Is how they handle the death of characters. For context, I fully expected Brasso to die in season 2, but not like they portrayed in the show. Thought he’d be killed in a spectacular, heroic fashion, like a shootout between imperial troops or protecting Bix or Cassian. Instead, we just see him dead as a result of him trying to make a run for his life. He just……ended up being shot and killed, like a pig in a slaughterhouse. Hell, he probably died a devoid of hope and full of despair since he probably thought Bix was doomed.

And it hurts. A lot. To see one of the most beloved characters in the series be killed for no reason, with no epic showdown, with no particular relevance to the plot. It’s only them you realize that the Empire is truly unredeemable, for killing so many good men without giving a shit.

Is the planet where Krennic has his secret meeting the same planet in The Bad Batch where Tech executed Order 99?

Maltheen Divide sounds more like a specific location on a planet than a whole planet and they look eerily similar.

32:40 WTF! Wuhhhuuuuuu! Masterpiece! Sound/Mix/Setting: 10:10

I think Perrin knows more about Mon's activities than Mon realizes. His conversation with her about Tay seemed like a warning. Did Tay say something to him while drunk? The way Perrin watches Luthen and Kleya is odd. Not sure what that is implying.

I can't figure out if Perrin has hidden rebel sympathies or if he actually loves Mon and is concerned for her. Thoughts? Did I miss important breadcrumbs?

There are obvious parallels between the Empire and the Third Reich. I think this is another one. Not just because of the setting/aesthetics... The Berghof was the vacation home of Hitler, and only the trusted inner circle was invited there. The beginning of this scene in Andor states that they are all part of a exclusive body.

Moreover, I think that there is an even deeper parallel. Just as with the Third Reich, the Empire has a high level of competence, professionalism, regiment, and order. However, there was a surprising amount of dysfunction in Hitler's inner circle. In that scene, after Dedra has made it to that exclusive circle, I think that we see disillusionment in her, because she was expecting a higher level of capability and competence.

Every single side character in Andor, that is how real they seem.

A full episode dedicated to Major Partagaz - He’s here, he’s there, he’s everywhere. He’s nowhere.

One for Davo Sculden’s family

One for Vel, no actually scratch that, she is the least interesting character in the show

One for Kellen

So I was thinking over where the show put us with that one year time jump at the start. And I realised that we missed something, we missed something that I really, really wished we had seen.

We missed Luthen and Kleya finding out that the reason that the Narkina 5 prison factory suffered a mass breakout and complete loss of production was that the Imperial legal system accidentally put their new protege in it.

I mean Luthen knows Cassian is that guy right, because of Aldhani, because of his career as a thief before that, because Andor gets the drop on him and catches him cold on his ship on Ferrix after the funeral. Luthen already knows he is working with one of the best.

So I would just have really liked to see his face when he finds out about Narkina 5. Maybe he doesn't hear it from Cassian, maybe it's from Melshi or somebody else when word gets out.

It would be such a cool scene though, with Luthen and Kleya in awe like, "Oh damn, who the hell have we just recruited?"

Are there any other conversations that you would have liked to have seen following the events of season one?

Call me a glazer if you want but… I really cant think of an hour of television that was more entertaining and so well constructed than this for a VERY long time. They did such an amazing job of catching up with basically every major and minor character of the show and somehow managed to keep everything moving and avoid any lagging scenes with too much boring exposition. The escape scene with the tie fighter is one of the best star wars sequences ever imho. I love how we just jump into that story and we dont have to be handheld and told exactly how Cassian ended up in this situation. I was so blown away I ended up marathoning all 3 of the first episodes of s2 last night. Bravo!👏🏼

Here’s what I think will happen in this arc:

• Dedra starts to feel pressure from the Ghorman project.
• Luthen and Saw Meet
• Bix and Andor share a romantic moment
• Bix and Andor are on a mission together
• K2's Introduction
• Bix Dies

I sure hope we get to see this guy!

(We need a "humor" tag, please! Just a funny video)

I feel like people on here complain about her a lot but out of everyone, I find her to be one of the characters who feels the most real.

Where he at String?

Like typically sci fi writers just invents a planet, and gives them a particular climate and physical geography, and might give the cities a particular architecture, but that's it. Most of the planet still speak the same language, and there's no sense of being a place.

I found it very suspicious that Krennik handpicked Dedra for the job. He says that he keeps an ear to the ground, but she is too much of a non-entity in the hierarchy of the Empire to be made note of. Krennik's very small team has people of many occupations. Spots are numbered, and here we have a redundancy of two ISB agents from the same team. Had Partagaz brought Dedra as his assistant, it could make sense. But for Krennik to want her, when he already has the more experienced Partagaz? Makes no sense.

My theory is that Dedra is being set up as the Person Who Will Take the Fall. The Ghorman catastrophe is obviously sanctioned, but the Empire will still need someone to publicly make example of to soothe the outcry. Dedra is eager and cruel, she will follow questionable orders easily. And she already has a history of overdoing it.

Bonus points if Partagaz knows and even proposed her for this role. It would be on par with the internal backstabbing.

Saw is one of my top three or four most favorite SWU characters ever. I often fantasize about shooting fascists during the battle of Ebro in 1938 Spain or being present for Mussolini's body to be hung upside down or building guillotines in France in 1789. So it makes sense this anti-fascist is a hero of the universe IMO. So yeah I think Saw is gonna, at some point, create even bigger divides between him and the splintered factions prior to the alliance forming and I'm sure Gilroy will navigate that masterfully. I am also here for it.

The trailer(s) do show a scene of Saw's X-Wings and transport ship taking off next to a body that doesnt look very Impish, and could be very rebel or civilian, and the backdrop looks Yavin4ish, and it looks like the temple's door step. Is that Saw, pissed at Maya Pei's Handsome Extra's from Lost Boys Club for fucking around and generally being idiots, finishing them off so they're less of a problem? Or is that not Yavin4 afterall, though man....from R1, seeing Cassian striding around, etc shots of Yavin 4...kinda seems like it is?

I do predict were gonna see some hot, sultry, rebel-on-rebel action at some point that's gonna push Saw even further into the madness.

In season one, Mon Mothma had challenges getting monies to help with the rebellion. And she helped the rebellion via Luthen. But when her finances became harder to conceal, Luthen told her that basically, if her funding was coming under scrutiny and harder to get, he should seek funding elsewhere and she should back away. She then told Luthen that she was bringing someone in (Tay) to help conceal it and she wanted to continue.

Essentially, she argued with him, pleading that he should be patient and give her some time to figure out how to continue to give him funding, despite the dangers to herself and the cause. (if you go back and rewatch their conversation, he really wanted to find a safer source of funds but she really pushed herself on him.)

And now in Season 2 we see the fallout to everyone.

Is there anything that people are aware of that suggests why she would push to assist in this fashion (solely by giving money) despite its danger to her and to Luthen and the cause overall?

It seems a bit foolhardy for her to continue to push help via the funding angle and not perhaps change to some other method of helping the rebellion. What do people think?

For anyone who is wondering the Niamos remix (or the song mon mothma was dancing to) is in the second half of the track "Brasso".

Takes me back to when I used to stream "A Long Ride Ahead" just to hear the Rogue One theme at the end :,)

Going into this season, there were a lot of questions about how Andor would handle a direct crossover with the Rebels timeline, as Mon has a pivotal speech announcing her commitment to the rebellion in Rebels after the Ghorman Massacre. There was some discussion over how Andor would handle this, with the consensus being more or less “eh, they might incorporate it, but if they ignore it completely, we’ll get it.”

In Rebels, Mon’s head of security is a character named Erskin who delivers Mon to the Ghost crew - and wildly, we saw him in live action in Andor in EP3. It wasn’t even a passing glance, it was a full conversation with Luthen where he reveals he was the child of a love affair.

When I first saw the conversation, I figured it was showing that Luthen scouted all of Mothma’s connections, even implying he traveled to the wedding planning to off Tay in the process. When I read the Rebels connection later, I realized that scene did way more than that.

It established that Erskin has a Ghorman mother. Showing why even after Mon’s declaration for the Rebellion, Erskin is going to remain ride or die with Mon when she goes on the run from the empire.

It’s incredible seeing Andor putting their typical attention to detail to enrich the larger Star Wars Canon (even from a “kids” show like Rebels), and it makes me excited to see how they incorporate the larger canon around it as they get closer to the Rogue One/ANH timeline at the end of Season 2.

Wanted to write up on how I feel early on and look back after s2 has finished to see if I still feel the same by then, and figured might as well post it to see for fun.

General Impression

Yeah Andor is still the best D+ SW show. Sound design, acting, action and stuff were amazing. The sets look all beautiful and realistic, unlike some of Disney's other SW shows that have you wondering if all of it was just a money laundering scheme because no fucking way it costed 200+ million for how embarrassing they turned out.

Writing wise, strong start. They're slow burn episodes, but felt too long to the detriment of the pacing at times. Felt like they could've easily cut out a lot of the fat and padding to condense it into two tight episodes. Broken the rest of the post up into the main concurring plots.

Cassian

Everything with the opening Tie Figther breakout scene was top notch shit. There's something just so satisfying watching Cassian navigate through all the mechanics of the tie fighter, flipping them buttons and shit. The scene with the imperial enigneer was a cute insight into the person Cassian has become now. Pussy Cassian is dead, its big balls fully realised Rebel Cassian now.

Cassian soon meets a bunch of goofy goobers who just fucked up his mission. This bunch is the most unlikable and pretentious we've seen and yet they turn out to be Rebels. The rebel group being so comically incompetent is juxtaposed to the Empire planning their shit in the most civil manner possible. Shows how really fractured Rebel cells can become the moment they are leaderless, symbolising the overall disjointed Rebell Cause, setting up characters like Mon Mothma to soon take the lead.

However, I did notice something in this that I just couldn't get out of my mind in the jungle scenes. The dialogue is clunky and at times, way too twenty first century like. Its just too sleek and modern if that makes sense and kind of broke the Star Wars immersion. Idk if thats just me though.

ISB

Krennic is back to slap some cheeks around, loved him in rogue one so it was a pleasant surprise to see him. Always been a big fan of the Imperial officer scenes in the Original Trilogy and Andor is very faithful to this portrayal, so seeing them doing their thing and being COMPETENT has, and still is the main highlight of the show.

Farm Gang

Definitely the slowest out of the bunch. Shows a different perspective on the empire, through the lives of every day civilians. Not many thoughts on this tbh. I liked how the death scene was handled out I guess, it felt natural and they didn’t linger on it too long because they’re all battle hardened.

Mon Mothma and the Wedding

A bit mixed on this one. Personally, I think Mon Mothma's actress is outright the best out of the cast. Seeing her grapping with the weaking, leaderless rebellion, maintaining her cover, letting go of her daughter, facing the fact that she has to kill her old friend. But 3 eps for a wedding? This better lead to some Game of Thrones type shit because I felt they were padding this side plot out WAY too long to the point it felt like filler at times.

Luthien is there too. He's always cool.

Imperial love side plot and the dude's mum

Might alert the reddit horde on this one, but I really couldn't give less of a shit about what was going on here and ended up fast forwarding it. The dynamic was cute the first couple times in s1 but at this point, its just not working for me.

My vote: Daft Droid

Just like Daft Punk, but more machine now than man… Twisted and Emo!

And of course who could forget their other hits like:

One More Chime (Ferrix Time Grappler Remix)
Around the World (Death Star x Yavin 4 Remix)
Droid After All
Da Force (Yoda Remix)
Droid-bot Rock
Palpatine Rules the Nation
Lose Yourself to Squigs
Instant Crush (Darth Vader Remix)
Harder Better Faster Gonker (Gonk Droid Remix)
Retrologic
I feel it coming (Alderaan x Hosnian Prime Remix)
Digital Love (B2EMO Remix)
Give Life Back to Palpatine (Exegol Remix)
The Game Has Changed (Wookie x Dejarik Remix)
The Grid (ISB Sector Remix)
Get Lucky (Karn x Meero Remix)

Any other possible guesses?

Something I've completely forgotten about is Luthen's surprisingly extensive knowledge about Cassian. At least, I recently watched Season 1 twice, and I don't remember this being resolved. As we saw, Cassian asked Bix how Luthen knee so much, and Bix herself said she was surprised how he knew certain things.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just left as a mystery at this point, as it's not really the most crucial question and the show isn't afraid to just leave certain questions up to the viewer. I'm not even sure what answer would be that satisfying. Probably he or Kleya just did their research.

Has anyone else thought about this and got some interesting theories?

(Yes, I'm talking about the attempted SA scene)

Anyhow on my second watch last night I noticed that Disney placed the "Skip to next episode" marker right as the scene shifts from tension to action and when Bix defiantly refuses his demands. Was this Disney's way of giving folks and easy way to punch out of this scene if they were going to be upset by it?

I wouldn't say my thoughts on Syril were shaped by Tony Gilroy as I came out of the season calling him a fascist and Gilroy apparently doesn't see Syril similarly; heck I still call him a fascist, that said they do mirror mine own by and large.

The lionshare of comments people have on Syril on this subreddit is polar that of the actors and Gilroy aside from the mentions of him showing the banality of evil, so for those that do try and mention "the point" of things in the series which bucks being able to claim "death of the author," as the point has to come from an original source/a code to crack in the narrative; here is what's actually said by the show's wirter.

Mainly posted as the insistence from some that Dedra is more posed for a heel turn despite Syril actually having human interests in-line with Ghorman culture and a cause in catching Cassian that is the opposite of bureaucratic ladder climbing/genocide planning with eyes wide open is a little mind boggling to me.

Not that I wish or want either of them to turn, just that if one did it'd likely not be the one already content with torture and hanging.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/star-wars/andor-syril-karn-fascist

https://ew.com/andor-creator-tony-gilroy-originally-hated-aspect-hilarious-dinner-scene-11714092

Clip of Tony Gilroy describing Syril as pure and unconfused on the path being to "do the right thing," but that right thing of course is where many people ultimately commit great wrongs.

https://x.com/jeronandor/status/1590493195863224322?t=wUXsekIArLm3hDswmcRKLw&s=19

He also says many characters test his sympathy but that Syril never does.

I don't think all of his words are opposite to the conclusions people predict in Syril's arc but they and many of the words from the actors paint a different picture of the emotional makeup of Dedra and him.

And that part of their person rather than the insistence on filtering every possible thought through the lens of anti-fascist vs embracing a multitude of ways to feel for the story that don't compromise any of the others, would be a waste in my mind and never how I engage with most fiction 🤷🏾‍♂️

I'm just gonna say it. The EDM was ill-placed during really serious moments in Chandrila and other scenes. I was hoping for more beautiful scoring. The actors did an amazing job but dang Disney, lettin me down again. 🥲

I watched it for the third time tonight, and I noticed more details in the production design, more non-verbal acting cues, and bits I somehow missed in the initial viewings (like when they told B2 that he's staying up on the hill, and we don't hear from him again, as people have pointed out 😔). It's like reading a novel rich with detail. and I don't know why, but I even found the storyline with the rebel faction in the jungle more entertaining this time around. at first I thought it was somewhat pointless and meandering, but after seeing it juxtaposed with the more fine-tuned imperial agenda (plotting to mine on Gorman), and the Chandrilan wedding customs of the ultra-rich, it makes more sense. I found myself questioning the decisions of the disorganized rebels, only to realize that at this point their decision-making won't make much sense because there is no clear leader and no clear objective. this series has all the hallmarks of great television. and we got 9 more episodes to go!!!

Besides the typical grifter "All Modern Star Wars is always bad, no exceptions" nonsense doing its rounds on social media regarding Andor Season 2, there has been one argument against it that the contents of the show is inappropriate for children, and thus is not "True Star Wars" since Star Wars is for kids.

Now, a part of me does understand where there are coming from since Lucas himself has said many times that Star Wars is primarily aimed at children, but I feel like these people, assuming they are arguing in good faith and are not just grifting, are forgetting the concept of younger versus older kids. Depending on the context and definition, the age range of being a child begins from birth to just before being a teenager (0 to 12 years of age) or from birth to being 18-21 years of age. In those years, a child will develop and grow to be able to handle different and more mature subjects, and said older children will seek out that media themselves. Like, do these people think that a older kid in the 10 to 12 age range would want to watch something like Young Jedi Adventures, a show clearly aimed at preschoolers instead of something like the 2003 and/or 2008 Clone Wars animated series?

A bit off-topic, but I actually talked about this before when I made a thread about the Ben 10 alien species Highbreed (a race of genocidal racial supremacists obsessed with genetic purity) in this comment.

I think the problem is that a lot of people, like the TV execs and parents you mentioned, nowadays all group everyone under 18/21 as collectively being "kids." While they of course are all kids, they neglect the concept of older kids who are ready for some more serious and mature concepts and ideas in media but not to the level of actual adult fiction.

Older shows like Ben 10, the 2003 and 2008 Clone Wars cartoons, Samurai Jack, etc. catered to the audience of these older kids (I would say from the 7 to 13 age range?) while still being appropriate for them to watch. I would say most Shonen anime also fulfill this role, but they lean more towards being for teenagers than old kids/preteens, imo. But, now most animated shows (again, outside of anime) are only for adults or very young children with little middle ground. The only exceptions I can think of are certain modern animated movies, like the Spider-Verse films, that still fit into that sweet "older kids and up" age group.

Star Wars has always been more suited for older children since it features things like murder, child murder, limb removal, genocide, both "regular" and sexual slavery, being set on fire, etc., so I don't see why anything from Andor would potentially be too much for them. Furthermore, even older children like teenagers would be ready to watch things like Andor or other more adult-oriented shows (and they'll often watch them anyway with or without parental supervision) as Andor has the "TV-14" age rating plastered right on Disney+ for everyone to see, which is the same age rating used for a multitude of other more adult-oriented media such as King of the Hill, Family Guy, Primal, etc.

Finally, I think one of the beauty of large franchises like Star Wars is a that there is a large spectrum of various types of media (movies, live-action shows, animated series, books, comics, manga, video games, etc.) for a range of different ages, allowing for virtually any kind of person to like and enjoy Star Wars.

So an idea just struck me while watching an interview with Denise Gough talking about how orange Eedy's clothes are in this scene. From Dedra's perspective the dinner is symbolic for the Empire vs the Rebellion, Eedy in orange a colour typically that of the jumpsuit's worn by Rebel pilots, is sniping away at the vulnerabilities of the Empire (Syril) while Dedra as both herself and the ISB come sweeping in to put the Rebellion down.

I could take it a step further and cast it as foreshadowing for the Ghorman situation where Dedra wants Rebels to act for narrative purposes, but in a controlled way, something like this "I'll allow a level of Rebel activity but it will be inversely proportional to the amount of damage caused" She wants some Rebels and damage, but not so much that they become an actual problem.

What do you think?

I get why Tony Gilroy had to kill Brasso. Because if he didn't he would've singlehandedly taken down the Empire in a single night using Maarva's brick

!!SPOILERS!!

That whole last half of the episode was a rollercoaster unlike anything I’ve seen in a while. Everything felt so damn real, constantly bouncing back and forth between the lowest of lows and the highest of highs.

I’ll never get tired of how this show makes fiction feel so utterly tangible. The characters are all fully-realized people, and as a result, the things that they undergo and the commentary that they represent hits way harder than it does in most other stories.

Andor truly is something special. The show reaches through the screen and gives you a profound experience you never forget. Season 2 is blowing away my expectations so far 😍

This is probably going to get me burried but it just bugs me. First, I would like to preface this with this. I think Rogue One is the best feature length Star Wars Film - especially if you look at all the films as individual pieces and not as parts of a bigger story. Then, Andor Season 01 is one of the best episode-story telling there is, imo, competing with the Wire, Shogun, and Breaking Bad. Tony Gilroy clearly knows how to tell stories which is why I find Season 2 so irritating. It gets plenty praise but that does not resonate with me. It doesn't even matter how much we have yet to watch still. But the style in which the story is told just feels a whole lot different. It lacks the precision, the economic tightness S01 had. I can't help but wonder how the writers' strike affected S02 and how much Tony Gilory had oversight. Just think of the two first scenes, in S01 and S02:

When we look at Season 1, the first scene, we learn a lot about this world. Crucially, we learn that life is valuable and killing comes with heavy consequences. Accidentally a corrupt officer dies and his friend realises what it may mean for his fate. Cassian then kills the second one too, fully aware how dangerous this is; and he was right. This sets a benchmark: actions have consequences.

Hard cut to some foreign planet - how do we know? The group we get to see talks in a foreign language without any subtitle. Even in a broader sense, I cannot think of a single scene that could be ommitted without sacrificing depth, story and or plot.

In Season 02, this is totally different. We open with turquoise letters BBY4 and the info, that this is one year later. Then it cuts to a ship in a hangar. We see a young woman pressing a few buttons. Who is she? We cut to a wide shot of a building with text saying "Sienar - Test Facility 73". Ok, new place. I guess we learn some other time. We see some sort of cantina. Somebody sits there - we hear Stormtroopers. The person hovers the hand over the blaster immediately, ready to pull. Then the reveal shot with a wider lens: Cassian. They walk past and a lady comes in.

Oh snap, it is the lady from before. I guess she walked from BBY4 to Sienar? Oh BBY4 is Sienar? Anyway the lady from before goes to him. He calls her by her name. She gives him the password (which never comes up again). She approaches him. He is concerned whether this is safe for him - she acts weird.

In blatant cheap exposition we learn that he's infiltrated a testing facility (despite having a registered face, despite the fact that some branches of the Empire are looking for him). And she apparently is not allowed to look at him but is anyways because he says it is ok but she doesn't but then does. We learn rules but not quite or do we - I don't know. She is concerned. Wait, she is concerned too. Not Cassian (not anymore at least). Because there is no other way to show us this, she tells us that her hand is shaking. Somebody stops at the door, a woman. Our lady walks over. The woman by the door? no worries, it was just for a joke: Cassian is cute. We're told her sacrifice is worth it. She needs twelve minutes.

Cassian goes into the hangar, to the ship. Sticks the key in. The droid recognises him? Oh well i guess he forgot the password. Cassian immediately shoots the Droid the other lady interacted with before (why not deactivate that thing?). He enteres the ship, clearly confused with the ship. Thousands of buttons - he just randomly presses around. I guess anyone can become a Empire Test Pilot these days. Becaus of the ruckus he's caused, storm troopers approach, and shoot right away at what is supposed to be a test ship but apparantly not valuable enough for the storm troopers not to destroy it.

Cassian struggles handling it. Despite his struggle, multple fighter pilots of the empire fail to take him down. This sets a benchmark too.

This is great fun!